The Rebel

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Posts by The Rebel

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  161

  Good Morning!

  by snowbird in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  good morning, all.. it is good to be here.. thanks to all for your contributions.. love and blessings.

  sylvia.

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  The Rebel

  Good evening, "snowbird" and a forum full of O.Ps, to bring the devil out in you :-)
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  13

  I have a big nose...

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  surprisingly whilst hating being born with this over large nose, women have fallen in love with my nose.

  so with regards to look and charm, what i hated about my physical attributes, many women have found attractive.

  anyway i just wanted to say what we find unattractive about ourselfs, doesn't necessarily mean others do.

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  The Rebel

  Why I started this O.P, is that most of us feel we are unlovable, ugly, due to how we see ourselfs in the mirror. This has lead me to me have a pathetic personally trait, and is why most of my female friends are attractive in appearance. But the important attribute should be a persons heart... if i can't see that, I am ugly, ugly...and sadly I am very ugly, I am trying to correct this failing.

  Having left the witness organisation, and thinking I am so enlightened, I realize as person I am still a rather pathetic and superficial person. So I am now trying to establish a rapport with all the wonderful people I meet, and not only interact with people that I find attractive.

  This is my 1489 post, so I would also like everyone to know, I am still learning about being a man...I am still not any further forward from cult thinking than I thought I was. Leaving a cult is just another " reality" of life to accept.

  How my wife has put up with me for 20 years, and how my 12,year old boy is my best friend shows i don't need to be the perfect husband, nor the perfect father ...i just need to be my imperfect self. So having a " big nose" and being insecure doesn't mean I am disadvantaged. And even if my wife left me and my child stopped loving me it isn't down to the size of my nose.
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  6

  The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

  a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

  i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

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  The Rebel

  I find it very sad that a parent can say to a son/ daughter who is disfellowshipped:-

  " look how much we sacrificed for you, when you were young, now you have forced us to shun you"

  In my opinion a parent should always say :-

  " You did what you feel right. We do and will always love you. We can not shun you"

  However if a son/daughter is shunned by parents, they may find it hard to honestly say to a parent " You have done what you feel right, shun me, but I will always love you"

  So too clarify my O.P. I am trying:-

  A) To understand the factors that make people believe things.

  B) To understand how a belief system can influence people to do things I think immoral.

  And most importantly, self examination:-

  C) In what circumstances am i still capable of living with " false" knowledge that will cloud my " moral attitude?

  And my conclusion is we are all challenged in life. We will all believe " false" knowledge and we all do things " immoral" even to our own standards.
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  6

  The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

  a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

  i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

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  The Rebel

  Hi Smiddy,

  Smiddy :- "did I understand correctly your O.P?

  The Rebel. I don't think you did?

  My point is JWs morals are often based on what they believe is correct. Therefore their attitude and feelings to life are dictated by this belief. What they believe as good I believe to be bad. This is because I now have a totally different moral compass to when I was a witness. But trying to reason my moral disagreement with a witness is often futile, because we believe a different truth and therefore have different morals.

  However my O.P was to :-

  A) highlight that whilst I judge JWs as having a low moral standard, I can also sympathize how the indoctrination process has clouded their judgement.

  B) When I trying reasoning with people and to change what I perceive as incorrect " truth" and " morals" I can understand why I am met with limited success. Culture, religion and various other factors can cloud a persons thinking.
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  6

  The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion"

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  when growing up in a "proper" j.ws household:-.

  a) our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.. b) to hold to jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.. c) what we believe we hold it to be true.. d) in terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.. anyway i am not sure where i am going with this o.p?.

  i guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with jws has proven more challenging than i realized.

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  The Rebel

  When growing up in a "proper" J.ws household:-

  A) Our moral opinions are conditioned by this environment and upbringing.
  

  B) To hold to Jws belief and moral opinions gives our life purpose.

  C) What we believe we hold it to be true.

  D) In terms of approval it can be difficult for the mind to accept logical evidence if our life is based on "truth" and " moral opinions" that conflict with our conscience.

  Anyway I am not sure where I am going with this O.P?

  I guess my point is that settling factual and logical disputes with Jws has proven more challenging than I realized. In order to explain this I illustrated my point with those born in . But the same argument can be used on any convert of a belief or moral system.

  This brings me back to my O.P " The challenge of " truth" and " moral opinion" and by so doing I hope it leads to greater understanding of why debating with some posters can be futile.

  My conclusion is it is not always that a poster is deliberately argumentative, when they fail to offer convincing reasons to justify a belief or moral opinion. The trick is to know when we are not going to convince someone on the validity of our argument.
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  13

  I have a big nose...

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  surprisingly whilst hating being born with this over large nose, women have fallen in love with my nose.

  so with regards to look and charm, what i hated about my physical attributes, many women have found attractive.

  anyway i just wanted to say what we find unattractive about ourselfs, doesn't necessarily mean others do.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  The Rebel

  surprisingly whilst hating being born with this over large nose, women have fallen in love with my nose. So with regards to look and charm, what I hated about my physical attributes, many women have found attractive.

  Anyway i just wanted to say what we find unattractive about ourselfs, doesn't necessarily mean others do. In fact it could be our main asset.
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  12

  Are their " wishy, washy" congregations...

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it may be an amazing thought for many but i am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist.

  i am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the g.bs guidelines on control.. i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to watchtower policies.

  sadly in the congregations i was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.. however with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason?

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  The Rebel

  Thanks for the replies.

  UnshackledTheChains:- that was an informative post, sadly " wishy washy" congregations can " shackle and chain" outsiders to a " powerful controlling publishing corporation"

  Actually that's the way most " interested one's" become part of a controlling publishing corporation. The other way is sadly those " men" who see the hate in the organisation, the position of power they can obtain, and they quickly become " company men" ministerial servants quickly promoted to elders. Sheep in wolves clothing.
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  40

  Do you air on the side of caution?

  by compound complex in

  1. social
  2. humour

  well, that would be an airer.

  it's all in how we hear the spoken word.

  when a little boy, one fellow thought "world peace" was "whirled peas.

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  The Rebel

  As a child I invented the word " syritherous" This was a magical word and I used it on many occasions.

  Headmaster " You are on the verge of a caning"

  The Rebel :-" It was very " syritherous" of me and I am sorry"

  Headmaster " Well don't let me see you in my office again"

  ........

  An elder trying to help me be more humble, assigned me with helping with toilet duties.

  The rebel:- " My doctor has said I have a " syritherous" phobia to disinfection materials"

  .....

  I think we should all have a word in our vocabulary that doesn't exist. It rarely enters some bodies mind to ask what " syritherous" means.

  
  

  
  
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  12

  Are their " wishy, washy" congregations...

  by The Rebel in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it may be an amazing thought for many but i am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist.

  i am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the g.bs guidelines on control.. i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to watchtower policies.

  sadly in the congregations i was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.. however with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason?

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• 

  The Rebel

  It may be an amazing thought for many but I am sure " wishy, washy" congregations exist. I am referring to congregations where the elders are idle in enforcing the G.Bs guidelines on control.

  i mean let's face it the organisation is an authoritarian regime, that works only if the elders enforce complete obedience to Watchtower policies. Sadly in the congregations I was associated with the elders excelled at enforcing loyalty and obedience.

  However with age, people mellow, elders can become more compassionate, even assume the voice of reason? When this happens Watchtower " hatred" will become repressed in that congregation,

  So in conclusion:-

  A) Has anybody been associated with a congregation where elders haven't stood down, but have seen the error of their ways?

  B) Are their congregations that believe in reason and discussion where members aren't controlled by emotional blackmail?
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  19

  Being homosexual in a JW house hold

  by Jean in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i could not find a topic about this if there is one ooops.

  it is hard to speak with my mother or any other witnesses about this, their response is "its ok to be gay just don't ever 'act out.

  acting out = being with someone even if its a healthy consensual legal relationship between two adults its still wrong.

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  The Rebel

  Jean, It's sick and sad if " love" is not understood.

  Jean you have started an " O.P" and a perception of a person I admire...it's only so sad that not only the J.Ws but society is still flawed and judgmental.....I was once part of that culture, I am ashamed.